America is getting worse

[quote author=Ashcrow link=board=14;threadid=5812;start=0#55410 date=1039405527]
[quote author=Lovechild link=board=14;threadid=5812;start=0#55360 date=1039384845]
I think my views are conflicting with the views of certain members on this one... I think for the sack of peace I will refrain from uttering my opinion futher on this matter.
[/quote]

Actually I'd love to get a europen point of view on it. I have yet to hear an actual good reason for a civilan gunless society from people in the US.

Are guns illegal where you live? How does it help/hinder society? How long has it been this way? Do police carry guns? etc ..
[/quote]

Okay since I was asked.

Guns are not illegal to posses where I live, all you have to do to get one (for hunting purposes) is to take hunting training and to get a license from the police to own it. You are AFAIK not allowed to own a gun for the sole purpose of personal protection, you are not allowed to shoot intruders, etc.
I would say it benefits society vastely, we have very few shootings in Denmark - I think it counts less than 20 a year (for a population of 5.5 million mind you).
We've had no school shootings, etc, and a generally low crimerate. The criminals as a general rule don't have guns, since most criminals are not able to easily get a gun (most drugaddicts, youngsters etc. just don't have access to them)
The police are allowed to carry guns, not all of them do so I think, the police in general fire their guns around 6 times a year (in total, not per cop).
I know my society is very safe, and we do benefit from gun control.

I can look up some statistics if you want them.

[mmiller9]

I have no problems with tough gun laws and yes I am a gun owner, but it isn't the law abiding citizen that cause the troubles, nor is it the gun itself, it is as pointed out by so many above those individuals that use guns as an instrument to commit crimes against others. I don't think that banning weapons of any type will change anything, bad people are still going to be bad people, only they will be the ones with the guns. The police have a hard enough time as it is trying to keep the population safe. I doubt this is the case but at least right now the criminal has to think that a person might have a gun in there before he commits an offense who knows it might even deter more break-ins than you think. Sorry for being long winded.

[Ashcrow]

[quote author=Lovechild link=board=14;threadid=5812;start=0#55426 date=1039418938]
Guns are not illegal to posses where I live, all you have to do to get one (for hunting purposes) is to take hunting training and to get a license from the police to own it. You are AFAIK not allowed to own a gun for the sole purpose of personal protection, you are not allowed to shoot intruders, etc.
I would say it benefits society vastely, we have very few shootings in Denmark - I think it counts less than 20 a year (for a population of 5.5 million mind you).
We've had no school shootings, etc, and a generally low crimerate. The criminals as a general rule don't have guns, since most criminals are not able to easily get a gun (most drugaddicts, youngsters etc. just don't have access to them)
The police are allowed to carry guns, not all of them do so I think, the police in general fire their guns around 6 times a year (in total, not per cop).
I know my society is very safe, and we do benefit from gun control.
[/quote]

Thats very cool! How long has it been in effect? Unfortunatly, I don't think it would work well in the US. The majority of gun crimes here are all from illegally purchased guns (IE: smuggled accross the border, etc) but some do come from legally purchased guns.

Thank you for giving such a well worderd response, I've wanted to know why a lot of Europeans are for strong gun controll laws and your response made a lot of sense.

[trickster]

[quote author=vvx link=board=14;threadid=5812;start=0#55385 date=1039398366]
The problem with banning any weapons is they aren't going to reverse the decisions. Taxes for example.. You vote for a tax that'll help roads yada yada whatever they're trying to sell now this year, next year you can bet there'll be something else they want you to vote for so they can tax more. Will they give up the first tax? Of course not.

So, first you start with the big nasty guns. Let's an assault weapons. Let's be realistic, is there even a need for police to have assault weapons? Politicians? It really depends on the definition of assault weapon that you use. I would say those armored cars have just as much use for an assault weapon as a police officer does.

Now, how many people are actually capable of making an accurate description of an assualt weapon? Yeah, exactly. So, the next step is either to ban something else that normal people don't need (pistol grips perhaps), or redefine what an assualt weapon is. Seeing as most people currently don't know, nobody will know it was redefined and so your freedoms quietly get taken away in some misguided hope to make the country safer from terrorism or what not.

You let it keep happening and soon enough since the only thing a handgun is designed for is murder, you don't have those either. Just hunting rifles. Then, because you can hunt with bow and arrows we outlaw rifles. Then you can use a knife and we outlaw bow and arrows. Okay, maybe that's not how it'll happen, but I do stick by my claims that gun bans won't stop with assualt rifles.
[/quote]
I personally don't think that, after restricting assault weapons, they will go for smaller ones. It is like saying that, after banning crack, heroin, marihuana, etc., thye would go after alcohol, tobacco, etc. Tobacco market was restricted, but I don't think any previous smoker stopped smoking for it. I think new smokers might think twice because of the campaigns against it. Weapons are a part of the American culture, and I don't think they would ever be banned entirely. However, with respect to assault weapons, it is true that they could be found in the black market. But that would make them more expensive and harder to get. The Maryland (?) sniper boought one legally in a store. It doesn't mean he couldn't have gotten it on the black market. It means it would have been harder for him. Same deal with the Columbine shootings. Many new criminals or regular people who would use a weapon for a crime, would think twice and perhaps don't turn to it, if the weapon was not as easily available. For example, if I snap and think of going into a shooting rampage, it would not even be an option if I had no way or if it was real hard to get a weapon. Same way, a big part of the weapons in criminal hands and the black market are stolen weapons. So, less available high end weapons, less available high end weapons also on the black market.

[Schotty]

Well, as I promised I will continue on.

The worst part about us americans is we have some pretty good laws. Why not enforce them? Why is it when something is a problem here we need a new law? Why not see what the hell the problem is and what it stems from and go from there. Since here in Milwaukee, most shootings are not from legal guns, that should be where we look. Background checks, we got them. Why not enforce that a bit? Since I am no felon, I can pretty much buy whatever I want. But be rest assured, if the govt (both RNC and DNC here) would get their collective heads out of their asses, the could use the DATABASE that they are undoubtedly making and use that to keep an eye out on the guy (like me in the future) that picks up the latest and greatest HK-MPX gun (god do I want an MP7 ... drool drool). That is either an assualt weapon or a really expensive collectors piece. The police do this with bars. Scan to see regulars and find out who the drunks are. Do it with guns. Save alot of time, effort, and headache.

Ask yourselves, do I really need an M16 to protect my laptops ? :P :P

[Schotty]

I dare you to move to Detroit, MI. You will change your mind about alot of things. I had to go there several times for work. The last time was the final straw. Send me, a white boy, into the most racially tense area besides milwaukee. And make it a full blown warzone. Fuck that. I wished I had a fucking stick or something when I went to go get lunch.

[quote author=Lovechild link=board=14;threadid=5812;start=0#55462 date=1039463554]
Ask yourselves, do I really need an M16 to protect my laptops ? :P :P
[/quote]
An M16? To protect my laptap/computers? Nah, an M16 wont even penetrate a windshield at 100 yards. Its designed to hit bone and travel up/down it to cause max damage to the individual. Besides, they jam pretty often. Use an AK47 instead. ;D

[Schotty]

and btw, M16's are damn fine weapons. I had the luxury of firing one for about 4 hours a few years back at an Army Natl. Reserve base. Very nice firearm.

[flashingcurser]

What is the difference between a "hunting rifle" and an "assult rifle" ? A M16 I believe is a .22 cal long, not a very powerfull rifle by hunting standards.