Important Forum Announcement

[genesis]

Hello everyone,

I'm genesis from MSForums.org - I've never been to this site before but I must say that it looks very good.

Peter, as far as your concern for getting more members - Google!!! Make sure google can read and index each and every thread and page on the site and you'll see a major improvement. I'm saying this assuming that may or may not have excellent ranking with google....

Rest of you guys, we Microsoft users aren't evil and the merge has happened already. From what I can see the veterans here are a bit tight about changes and Microsoft products whereas Rick from MSforums is displaying patience that actually made me wana post.

So chill, give it a little time and you'll be alright. I've been through enough forums to know exactly how your side works.

[cga]

Hello everyone,

I'm genesis from MSForums.org - I've never been to this site before but I must say that it looks very good.

Peter, as far as your concern for getting more members - Google!!! Make sure google can read and index each and every thread and page on the site and you'll see a major improvement. I'm saying this assuming that may or may not have excellent ranking with google....

Rest of you guys, we Microsoft users aren't evil and the merge has happened already. From what I can see the veterans here are a bit tight about changes and Microsoft products whereas Rick from MSforums is displaying patience that actually made me wana post.

So chill, give it a little time and you'll be alright. I've been through enough forums to know exactly how your side works.

Welcome.

I don't think anyone here has stated that Microsoft users are "evil". In fact, many of us are Microsoft users in addition to being Linux users. You may have noticed that a few of us have already responded to posts from MS users asking for help.

The concerns that we veterans have little to do with Microsoft, but more to do with how the forums are being run and how we feel we have lost a very special community -- granted, we lost it years ago with the demise of LNO.
And with all respect, if you were not a part of LNO, you can not know what we mean when we say that we lost something really special to us.

That said, I am still here. I have nothing against Windows users, being one myself part of the time at least, and I will help Windows users as much as I can since that is now part of the forums.

[Lovechild]

Hello everyone,

I'm genesis from MSForums.org - I've never been to this site before but I must say that it looks very good.

Peter, as far as your concern for getting more members - Google!!! Make sure google can read and index each and every thread and page on the site and you'll see a major improvement. I'm saying this assuming that may or may not have excellent ranking with google....

Rest of you guys, we Microsoft users aren't evil and the merge has happened already. From what I can see the veterans here are a bit tight about changes and Microsoft products whereas Rick from MSforums is displaying patience that actually made me wana post.

So chill, give it a little time and you'll be alright. I've been through enough forums to know exactly how your side works.

A) Being the new guys, I hardly think you get to tell anyone to chill
B) Some of us are angry precisely because the merger happened completely without us being consulted so stating that fact does not endear you to me.

We know full well that you aren't evil just because you support an evil reigme (tongue firmly placed in cheek), the anger comes from having an unsuitable merger forced upon us. Hell we can come in here on any random day and things will look or work differently or the scope of the forum has been redefined. Here is what I think is going to happen.

Windows users come here for help, since the merger happened in part because you guys couldn't handle the pressure that would mean that we Linux people would be expected to help out. If we don't, the forum as a whole gets a bad (some might say worse) reputation. Now here is a the kicker, quite a lot of us don't like or use Windows personally, which means helping someone who does is really hard in part because we can't follow along on our own machines or remember from day to day experience. So the answer becomes searching google.. and searching google for Windows users is not what I understand by building a community. However you need to be absolutely clear that I do not have a personal problem with you, my problem is solely with the way this place is being run. It does not feel like a community because we are not making such decisions as a community, we don't grow from love and excellence but from forced mergers. Most of us struggle to get back what LinuxNewbie was to us, the sense of community was excellent and the mix of fun and professionalism was spot on.. then the owners ****ed it up by laying off our community leaders. We tried to rebuild, for a time that actually worked and LinuxJunior was a vibrant community but we tore it apart because we lost that sense of belonging over time.

Like the rest of the members who came from LNO then LJR I gave OpenFree the chance it deserved and I hoped that with love and effort we could build something great.. I believe this merger is one step amongst many to show that we are failing.

[genesis]

And with all respect, if you were not a part of LNO, you can not know what we mean when we say that we lost something really special to us.

I was not a part of LNO but I ran GTABOARDS.COM with over 50,000 members, I had to shut it down and before it went down we had to go through major changes. My staff had the same feeling, so I can relate - that's what I meant to say.

A) Being the new guys, I hardly think you get to tell anyone to chill

A new guy can certainly tell people to chill because I have over 6 years of experience running number of forums with over 150,000 members. Not being defensive here but that was just a suggestion that I can see from the other side of the window.

the anger comes from having an unsuitable merger forced upon us.

Give it a chance, although it's human nature to be afraid of changes, but still give it a chance.

since the merger happened in part because you guys couldn't handle the pressure

Now don't say things you don't know, MSForums.org was doing very well until I opened up my Computer store which takes 13 hours+ a day 7 days a week of my time. HELL I haven't taken my wife for a movie in the last year and half. I say again, I have done so many forums and so many members that this site feels tiny. If I can handle 14 forums with 150,000 members I can certainly handle MSForums. So please don't judge me when you don't know me.

quite a lot of us don't like or use Windows personally

You could go to MSForums and do a search, see if you find a single post where some Microsoft product user says the same about linux. Here's the kicker, I live on Windows, my business would have never taken shape without windows BUT I am also running 2 linux routers and a linux fileserver. Don't be so narrow minded.

my problem is solely with the way this place is being run

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea how this place is being run, neither do I have any say on how it should be run. But taking the merger as a chance to vent is just not professional. Moderators and admins should bring up their issues in a closed administrator's area, not in public where it just looks wierd for me to read along with hundreds of others that have migrated here.

All things said, I suggest again to just chill, take a couple of days break if you guys need it but I've seen all this before with my staff over at GTABOARDS and let me tell you one thing very clear, only the moderators and staff members are the ones to make it through this. Regular users will not see any difference unless the staff makes it visible.

genesis out!

[Lovechild]

I'm not a staffer, I'm just a user. Nothing in my profile data indicates that so where you got that idea I can only speculate upon. Having NEVER been consulted if we wanted this change in scope, users can only express their displeasure in the accouncement thread.

Here's something for you to comtemplate, is quality the same as quanitity? Because you are saying that because you have experience running big forums, you absolutely know what the exact conditions are on this specific small one. I personally think that smaller forums are nicer communities to be part of, everyone is family and you know the people there are likely to share your interests. Most of my longterm friends I've gotten to know via forums like this one and as such I spend a great deal of my time contributing to them. Here e.g. I offer to ship out distributions to those who can't download one, free of charge - that's my way of saying thank you. I have not seen that kind of thing on any major board and it's something I would be afraid to trade away for the simplistic objective of getting more members. Look at something big like the Gentoo or Ubuntu forums, they are horrible, their moderators are basically draconian nazis and it's extremely hard to find competent debate or help. I think that is in part because they grew beyond their optimum, when they were smaller the vibrant communities were wonderful to be part of.

Aside that, why is it my fault that you have no time to spend with your wife - you elect to give up that to run 14 forums and your own business. The strange thing is that your argument isn't even remotely connected to the point you are trying to make - you are simply saying: "I gave my life to this and if you don't like it..."

Respect that I and other simply did not ASK for this merger, it is nothing personal with you or the MSforums users nor even whither I personally like Windows or not (as I said I simply do not run Windows - I haven't for +8 years now). We have a right to express that view because this is our community to, not just those who run it. We create the majority of the content, we are the majority - not the admins and moderators, we should have a say. Uptill now all that has been offered up is "give it a chance", given the stunning disaster Peter and you have created here by not ASKING us if we thought this was suitable - I think you should give listening to the userbase a chance.

[RickDev]

I am not going to say "hey live with it" or "give it a chance". I don't even want to see this topic turn into an argument, because that is why one forum would not want to merge with another forum. It starts to to hurt the forum as a whole. So instead of going in that direction, I think the members of OpenFree before the merger have a right to, if nothing else, vent in this topic on why they don't think the merger is something they wanted to see. I don't see members leaving as long as the community is not harmed beyond repair by bickering. I for one have been trying to start looking into playing around with linux but have never found the right community. The members here seem passionate which is what I think is great. So I will be asking for as much help on the Linux side as I will be trying to help on the Windows side.

So I hope that things can work out and that in the future the member base is asked on changes that effect the community as much as merging a Linux and MS community together without input.

[Larry]

Well, we in MSforums had not a choice about the Merg either...

But WE are ALL now sharing the same HOUSE...

Can't ya fell the LOVE...

[peter]

I repeat the fact that I will be more consultative in future, but we need to face some difficult decisions related to the forum's future. This is apparent from the contradictory desire to have an intimate yet vibrant forum. This will be difficult to achieve without replenishing the pool of active members when the existing membership increasingly finds other things to occupy its time such as the demands of family and work.

How can there be vitality without rejuvenation of the member base? The forum will continue to slide without new members. This is not to say that OpenFree must grow to become ungainly, and unwelcoming, but it should be large enough to have new members reopening threads with related questions and creating brand new ones. This was also alluded to by trickster.

Providing the symptoms of the problem is insufficient, the forums will only improve if clear suggestions are provided I ask once again, what other suggestions do you have to revitalize the forum?

[Lovechild]

I repeat the fact that I will be more consultative in future, but we need to face some difficult decisions related to the forum's future. This is apparent from the contradictory desire to have an intimate yet vibrant forum. This will be difficult to achieve without replenishing the pool of active members when the existing membership increasingly finds other things to occupy its time such as the demands of family and work.

How can there be vitality without rejuvenation of the member base? The forum will continue to slide without new members. This is not to say that OpenFree must grow to become ungainly, and unwelcoming, but it should be large enough to have new members reopening threads with related questions and creating brand new ones. This was also alluded to by trickster.

Providing the symptoms of the problem is insufficient, the forums will only improve if clear suggestions are provided I ask once again, what other suggestions do you have to revitalize the forum?

Who says you need to, honestly - why do we _need_ more members? What would it bring us?

We need more contributors and much to your surprise, that takes care of itself - take what I do, I maintain the Fedora section as best I can here so when people have questions when I meet them I point them here because I know I or someone else will be able to help out. Because this is a smallish place that technic works really well, answers are normally fairly prompt and provide a solution. People who have a smile on their face tend to stick around. Simply merging random forums (what next.. anime?) will not get that benefit.

I don't see why we need to be big, I simply don't - this is a community, not an expression of your penis size. Bigger is not better.

When you make statements like "replenish the pool of active users", you are in effect saying - if you go away, I'll simply replace you with other people because.. I honestly don't care about you. That is no way to build a community and it's no way to make it grow. It is however and excellent way to piss off your existing userbase by governing their home in a manner quite similar to Stalin running Soviet Russia (...in which Stalin boots user).

You want more activity, more random members is not likely to bring that, it's however likely to alienate your existing userbase and encourage them to leave or at the very least decrease activity and stop pointing the forum out to friends as a good place to get help.

[Larry]

What happened to the Love in Lovechild ???

Theres just no pleasing you is there ???

And is everything you write so LLLOOONNNGGG ???

If this place falls why not at least wait till its on its way down before you say "I told you so".

Oh yes, and I do have a weakness for "Smiles" icons..