It wasn't your fault for getting LJR, we know. But the LJR regulars were VERY upset with the fact that we were never told or consulted even though the promised was made when we first started that the site would be run based on community input. It was never meant to make money, grow big or being everything-go-around forum either. I don't know about others but it WAS VERY UPSETTING for me. I decided not to talk about the person being in charge was so stupid and would do that to us.With LJR, I approached the administrator of what appeared to be a dormant forum, asked whether I could take it over, and was told "yes". As the forum seemed inactive, I primarily consulted the person who appeared to be the owner and consulted them on the communication strategy to be used.
At least, when the merger was done it was a very similar (or so I've thought) line of things with our own mission. To support Opensource software and its development through our own time because we were very greatful with others who have helped us through our own journey.
This current merger was a very different one. They support M$ and its closed source OS. They support something we dearly hate, the mentality is totally different and the mission is total opposite. So it's no surprising to me that those from the other side will never understand why we are being very upset. We are not afraid of chances. We just like to have a choice.
I don't hate people who uses Windows. I do too and I probably will in the future at work. I don't even hate Bill Gates. Personally, he is a great guy. Whenever he come around to Stanford, I'd go and listen to his speeches. The last time he was in SF for charity talk, I was there. He was very impressive. But that doesn't mean I like what he does for his job. We are just, well, different.
Show me a thread that said it was your mistake for merging with LJR.The furor that followed that decision truly took me by surprise,
And you also forgotten the help that you had received including our meeting. I advised you with many points to make things getting better, how to make it all smooth out and what was our values were such as given choices.and I did accommodate as many requests as possible from the membership to help ease the transition. That has sadly been forgotten.
One thing I like to point out; Openfree will NEVER be the same as LJR. When LJR started out we had a great community. That's gone. That's all. But the same problems that made LJR downhill still persit in Openfree. That is; not allowing freedom of expression. Here, we all say we want freedom but when it comes to it we were just saying "you can say all you want as long as you agree with me".Even with these efforts, made with our community input, there was the constant lament that the forums were not like LJR, and most specifically, that they needed more life and that made it "not the same".
So you come up with the idea of merging with Windows forum? Brillient.It was a factor that had concerned me for some time and it seemed from the level of discord, that it was threatening the forum.
I'd vote for separation of forums if given that choice. If not, oh well, so long.I will say it again. There will be more complete consultation, but there needs to be an understanding of how it should be done.
I don't think this is true. I don't recall at anytime we had one single no and we drop something. Show me a thread.This may seem crazy, but we now have a dynamic in which it is possible that a single "no" from a member could stagnate any decision to go forward.
The current thread, there were more than a few against. The only "for" are you and two guys from MSforums.
Is this thread about suggestion for improvement of Openfree?? Wow, how did I miss that??Even with the disapproval voiced here, I have yet to hear in this thread proposed methods of creating an improved forum that you can all agree on.
1) I would say one person should not have special rights or deciding veto. Not you and not me.
I disagree. The admin should have the veto. Whether he/she uses it or not is depends on the consequences that s/he likes to take.
Even if we pretend that he asked for our imput, we voted against it but he veto it and decided to continue, then that's fine. But the results like right now is "considered risk" that he takes.
Other than this, I agree with you most of it.
This was true as Linux popularity was gaining steam, and continues to be so. This is not new.Linux continues to grow, and as it does, users, developers and systems administrators will find themselves increasingly having to integrate and interact with other operating systems and their users.
I found that LJR membership naturally sustained itself. What brought new folks to the sites were the PETS and interesting threads that got top google rankings. There was no real need to artificially boost membership just for the sake of having lots of members. There were enthusiastic posters, as well as the ones who hang out and wait for interesting problems to solve for their posts.There are many forums out there that have started with enthusiasm, and slowly faded as they failed to adapt. In the early days the LJR membership was relatively new to Linux. There was lots of curiosity and the members had the time to investigate their passions. The forum was vibrant. The curiosity still thrives, but as we get older, the time that can be dedicated to our favorite pastimes becomes reduced due to the distractions of work, family and the development of other interests. The more senior members pass by daily to see how they can help the newbies and also each other. This provides a sense of fulfillment which I am sure you all cherish. The problem is that if the membership stays static, then the number of new challenges for the members diminishes and overall activity trails off.
See aboveA growing membership provides rejuvenation. Answers to posts from newer members like omidkamangar have been instructive, challenging and rewarding. We need more like that.
Fair enoughYou mentioned the revenue. I'll be frank. The forums earn about $2.00 a day from advertising and I spend an equal amount on Google Adwords to help attract more visitors and expand the membership. Server hosting costs are additional. It is not, and probably will never be, a revenue stream of any worth.
I've got to wonder then, why the need to boost numbers of users?So why do I bother? The reason is simple, I like conversing with the membership, and I like playing with Linux. It's a labor of love and that helps to keep me aware of what's going on in the community.
You can see that the hard core former LJR members have wildly different goals than what you present here. I don't begrudge you your goals for the site, afterall, you own it. However, you may find that the most active and senior members here, who happen to be the content creators, will look elsewhere. Personally, I don't want to invest time and energy to a watered down generic IT forum.
[silence off]Hello redhead it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?
Now I've decided to break this seemingly active silence, just to let you know how I feel about this... Or should I say my previus silence might be the right way to show my discontent with the merger..
Beeing a long time member of LNO/LJR I felt some what reluctant to see LJR turning into openfree, I decided to give that merger the benefit of the doubt, since mainly the site was still about the LINUX community, and given that a majority of the LJR members would still be around.
Now once I started to feel comfort with this openfree thing, all of a sudden it is a LINUX/windows community.. WTF. I never joined a LINUX community in order to get closer to windows... I couldn't be more happy when I decided to erase my last windows installation back in late '98 (and dont give any remarks on how win98 sucked and win2000/XP/vista/whatever crap will prevail) windows will in my mind forever be closed proprietary, and I will only deal with truly opensourced projects.
This passion for opensource has had in impact on my life, where I havn't touched or even seen a windows environment in the past 6 years, now from out of nowhere, my opensource commitment is beeing compromised by the proprietary mindset beeing forced uppon me.. This I can not accept, like I said, I didn't join a LINUX community in order to get closer to windows.
Don't worry Ma'am. We're university students, - We know what We're doing.
'Ruiat coelum, fiat voluntas tua.'Datalogi - en livsstil; Intet liv, ingen stil.
Even though I do not like the turn the forum has taken, I can't blame Peter for being reticent to make any changes back.
That being said, and without any intent to harm OpenFree, I believe it is time for us to decide what we want to do as a community.
The way I see it, we have three options
1. Stay here and get used to the way the forum is moving.
Pros: No extra effort. People already know the place. Linuxjunior redirects
here. Previous accumulated knowledge is here.
Cons: Discussed ad nauseum
2. Migrate to a new forum.
Pros: We can take the forum on the direction we want.
Cons: Lots of efforts. Loss of previous knowledge, as well as the LJr name,
which is moderately known. Loss of members which will come here
and not know where we went. Big time investment so the forum
doesn't starve and die.
3. Migrate to other already exisitng linux forums
Pros: Little extra effort.
Cons: No say on how the forum is handled. Most well established linux
forums focuse too much on the techinal part and have little off-topic
community chat. Unknown chemistry.
Even though each of us could make a choice by ourselves, it'd be nice if all of us made a similar choice; we already know each other and the chemistry we can expect.
So what do you guys think?
PD. As i meantioned a few months ago, I can setup and host a new forum, if that's what we decide to do. However, that shouldn't impact our decision-making process. It just means that if we decided to go that route, hosting and setup wouldn't be an issue.
My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive.
I prefer the creation and hosting of a new forum. I have the identity hosting account that I can provide if need be, if setting up a new hosting account is a problem. The domain name will need to be changed, and I don't know what is available to us at that hosting. Maybe upgraded service would be warranted, which I don't mind getting started. Either way... Trickster's offer is good, as probably most of us are unable to dedicate time and resources to the administration of a forum.
As far as our PETS, they can remain here and new ones made, or we migrate them again. Pain in the butt, but each author owns his or her work, so should be no real legality issue, just a pain of having duplicates out there. Personally, I don't care if here mine sit. I'll just make new ones as time and motivation permits.
Would the option of removing the merge or a 3rd party stepping in to take the Windows members that are not interested in the Linux side of things? I am not sure what the whole deal with the merge was as far as financial, but would that help resolve some of the conflict or is this more of "the damage as been done" sort of deal?
Differing culture, viewpoint and goals sort of thing really, and the way things are being handled, smacks of the Linuxnewbie.org mess. Read above for some history about that if you care to. Personally I harbor no ill will toward Peter or any of the merged folk. Really, we just feel pushed around.