Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 38

Thread: Linux, should I convert?

  1. #21

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    I asked this same question of myself last fall, and took the plunge. I glad I did, overall.

    There's some bad, and some good news.

    You will have to become much more intimate with your computer and the whys and whats of it's doings. You will have to crawl around in files and folders that have terrifying names like /bin and fstab. You will (most likely) have to reinstall from scratch several times before getting it down pat.

    BUT -- when something doesn't work, or doesn't work the way you want it to, there is a way to fix it and there is help. I've found a lot here on LJR. (Thanks)

    I can also recommend "Linux for Non-Geeks" by Rickford Grant. Mine came packaged with a distro of FC1, which I didn't use, but the references for the most part are just fine for the FC3 I'm running now.


    I can say that I have a real sense of personal acheivement every time the darn thing boots up and actually does something. (I did a little happy dance to celebrate my first scan with my HP all in one). I never got that with Windows. If it was broke, there was no way to fix it so I just lived with it.

    Linux for us "real people" users is a challenge, but is entirely possible, and IMO worth it in the end. Just my 2 cents.


  2. #22

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    I am sorry to have to say it, but I cannot recommend converting to Linux from Windows unless you are a programmer with a thorough understanding of Unix, TCP/IP, and C. You also need a thorough understanding of PC and networking hardware, a lot of time, and a lot of money. I base this conclusion on my own experience. For the past 18 months, I have tried desperately to switch my small medical office to Linux from Win 2K, because I hate dealing with all of Windows' issues; and the cost of Windows is outrageous. I ended up spending many, many thousands of dollars on various distributions of Linux (I have everything you could imagine!) and lots of new hardware, since Linux wonīt work with any hardware known to mankind. (This is especially true of hardware guaranteed to work with Linux). So far Iīve managed to get one machine connected to the internet. I havenīt been able to get even a single software package to install under any version of Linux, which was not a part of the distribution disk. Nor will any Linux machine communicate with any other machine over a network. I havenīt been able to get any of about 30 versions of Linux to print to any of 12 different printers, regardless of whether they are connected locally or on the network. Only once did I get a word processor to run (it installed automatically as part of the distribution) but that was worthless, since I couldnt print. So far, my several thousand dollars have bought me one internet browser and e-mailing machine. Thatīs it.

    I know, I know. Iīm a dumb neophyte who knows nothing of computers. Thatīs true, but I did work my way through medical school writing programs for local companies and I persoanlly built most of the 9 PCs in my office from parts. I designed our intranet and even pulled the wires through the walls and floors myself. The PCs and Macs in the office all work fine over the same network, and have no problems sharing data. I have not gotten even one Linux PC to share data with any other machine, ever (not even another Linux machine). Iīve now finished 4 books on Linux, but it hasnīt helped.

    Linux is not ready for primetime. It is a plaything for programmers, but is not intended for day to day use in an office. I think of it as like an automobile in 1890. It shows extraordinary promise and is kind of fun, but it wonīt be mature enough for workaday use for another 15 to 20 years.

  3. #23

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    [quote author=DeadBird link=board=12;threadid=10306;start=0#msg95158 date=1121765314]
    I am sorry to have to say it, but I cannot recommend converting to Linux from Windows unless you are a programmer with a thorough understanding of Unix, TCP/IP, and C. You also need a thorough understanding of PC and networking hardware, a lot of time, and a lot of money. I base this conclusion on my own experience. For the past 18 months, I have tried desperately to switch my small medical office to Linux from Win 2K, because I hate dealing with all of Windows' issues; and the cost of Windows is outrageous. I ended up spending many, many thousands of dollars on various distributions of Linux (I have everything you could imagine!) and lots of new hardware, since Linux wonīt work with any hardware known to mankind. (This is especially true of hardware guaranteed to work with Linux). So far Iīve managed to get one machine connected to the internet. I havenīt been able to get even a single software package to install under any version of Linux, which was not a part of the distribution disk. Nor will any Linux machine communicate with any other machine over a network. I havenīt been able to get any of about 30 versions of Linux to print to any of 12 different printers, regardless of whether they are connected locally or on the network. Only once did I get a word processor to run (it installed automatically as part of the distribution) but that was worthless, since I couldnt print. So far, my several thousand dollars have bought me one internet browser and e-mailing machine. Thatīs it.

    I know, I know. Iīm a dumb neophyte who knows nothing of computers. Thatīs true, but I did work my way through medical school writing programs for local companies and I persoanlly built most of the 9 PCs in my office from parts. I designed our intranet and even pulled the wires through the walls and floors myself. The PCs and Macs in the office all work fine over the same network, and have no problems sharing data. I have not gotten even one Linux PC to share data with any other machine, ever (not even another Linux machine). Iīve now finished 4 books on Linux, but it hasnīt helped.

    Linux is not ready for primetime. It is a plaything for programmers, but is not intended for day to day use in an office. I think of it as like an automobile in 1890. It shows extraordinary promise and is kind of fun, but it wonīt be mature enough for workaday use for another 15 to 20 years.
    [/quote]
    Ok. This sounds a lot like flamebait.
    The fact that you could not get it to work does not mean that you need to be a "programmer with a thorough understanding of Unix, TCP/IP, and C." I'm not a programmer, and I don't know C. Many people that come to this forum don't know any of the things you listed. Yet, they get it to work fine.Most linux distributions are free. I can't think how you managed to spend thousands of dollars (unless you went and bought enterprise versions of the software, like Red Hats. If this is the case, I'm sorry to say that you should educate yourself before spending that much money, or hire someone to do it for you.)
    We have many tutorials available here, including networking, setup, etc. We have a very friendly forum where people frequently try to help others. If you can't get something to work, I'd recommend to get help instead of start bashing.
    It's been a while since I've heard of any piece of hardware not being supported under linux. I'm aware of some, but most of the commonly-found pieces of hardware are supported.
    If you are still interested in getting your "thousands of dollars of investment" to work, I know I'd be happy to help you, and I know many other people here would be.

  4. #24

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    [quote author=trickster link=board=12;threadid=10306;start=0#msg95160 date=1121772781]
    Ok. This sounds a lot like flamebait.
    [/quote]

    How very true. I've installed linux on seven separate boxes on my home network in various houses with various types of internet connection, and I've set up countless linux boxes at work to act as little miscellaneous servers. I've never had to do anything but maybe type my name, hit enter a few times, and I've had a fully functional system within minutes. Last time I had problems with hardware that wasn't broken was Mandrake 7.2 back in 1999 (Windows had just released WinME to give you a perspective of the computing landscape at the time).

    Perhaps it's your individual experience, and perhaps you're trolling. Perhaps you're using distributions that were released circa 1996, in which case you would be completely correct. I don't know, I'm not one to say. But what I do know is that I was able to hand an Ubuntu CD to my mom (self-proclaimed "cyber-nincompoop&quot and she was up and running in minutes. No knowledge of TCP/IP, and she's definitely not a programmer. Given that tidbit, I find it hard to accept that someone who supposedly programmed their way through school and hand-assembled PCs, and designed a small office network would be stonewalled when faced with "Click Next to Continue".

    If you had to learn TCP/IP to get your distro up and running, I think you may have been looking too deeply into a problem.

    Try Ubuntu 5.04 (codenamed Hoary) or Fedora Core 4...both quite modern, both with features that IMHO better WinXP around the board. Oh and they're both completely free...so you can spend your "thousands of dollars" on equipment actually related to your job. :

  5. #25

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    First, thanks to trickster for his kind offer to help. Trickster is right, my post did sound like flamebail. However, you will note that it was posted at 5:28 A.M., after spending 9 hrs all night trying to get Mandrake 10.1 to install on a new machine (and yes, I did show up for work on time 2 hrs and 32 min later that morning).

    Next, darts to cga for acting EXACTLY like a Mac-head (Ļanyone who doesnīt use a Mac is obviously a troll, a liar, and an idiotĻ). cga is correct, of course. I AM an idiot. But that is precisely my point. An awful lot of us Americans are astonishingly stupid. The average office worker may be able to get Linux installed on a workstation, but good luck getting it to network. None of the professional people Iīve consulted have been able to help at all. They all beg ignorance of things Linux and then pretty much tell me only an idiot would try to use Linux as a workaday operating system in a business environment. ĻItīs only useful for web serversĻ is a common opinion. Oh yeah, then they send me a hefty bill for their excellent advice. After several such encounters, I realized that I donīt actually know of ANY non-computer industry offices that use Linux. None! I know of a local chain of department stores which persisted in using OS/2 up until about 5 years ago, when they were bought by another chain. But I donīt know of ANY non-computer-industry companies which use Linux for workaday business. That absolutely must change if Linux is ever to be anything more than a footnote in the history of operating systems.

    Enough stupid ranting. Does anybody know why Linux (particularly Mandrake 10.0, 10.1, and Suse 9.2 and 9.3) will correctly identify, install the drivers, and set up ALL of the printers on an intranet, then refuse to print to any of those printers from any application? This is not a Samba issue, as the printers are connected directly to the network and are not tied to any operating system. Linux identifies the printers at installation, but refuses to acknowledge their presence when the network is queried or anything needs to be printed. The printers respond when pinged, but Linux adamantly refuses to print to them.

    Also, why does Linux recognize the workgroups which Macs and Windows machines set up on the intranet, but then refuse to acknowledge the presence of any of the machines in those workgroups? Interestingly, Linux will often correctly identify and configure printers which are connected locally to a Windows machine which is sharing them on the network, while nevertheless refusing to acknowledge the presence of the Windows host (or for that matter the presence of the printer itself) on the network. Linux will not, of course, print to any of these. Is this a Samba configuration problem? Our Macs run Samba on OS X (a Unix variant) and they have no trouble communicating with the Windows machines or printing to their printers (and vice-versa).

    Finally, does anyone know how to get Win4Lin to install under ANY version of Linux? Iīve purchased 4 different versions of Win4Lin (at some expense) but have been struggling for more than a year to get any version of Linux to install them (Iīve tried several dozen commercial distributions of Linux, but none of the various package managers will install any of the four Win4Lins on any machine). For that matter, has anyone gotten Wine up and runnig? Iīve managed to install Wine during the installation procedure of several Linux distros, but it will never run.

    Thanks.

  6. #26

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    I'd say each of these issues merits its own thread in a help forum. There are follow-up questions I'd ask to all of them, but addressing them all here would pollute the thread.

    Forums are always worth your time. I'd post here, and over on http://www.linuxquestions.org and on your distro's forums before you even consider professional help that you need to pay for. I've integrated Linux servers into corporate networks before and it's been a piece of cake with the help that people have lent on forums.

    As far as small networks go, this is where linux excels. I have a laptop acting as a samba, mail, web, ftp, and ssh server that serves up content in all of the above formats to a network that contains a mix of Linux and windows clients (7 in all). I don't have any experience with network printing, but I know it's done through Samba, and Linux does Samba like a champ. Once you know how to set it up how you want it, it's a piece of cake to anyone reasonably competent with computers.

    You might want to give Ubuntu a shot. http://www.ubuntulinux.com/ . It comes with some of its own config tools that make life easier. Setting up a new network share is literally as simple as going to System->Administration->Shared Folders. I can only assume that network printing is just as simplified.

  7. #27

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    Thanks to Tyr_7BE. Sorry to stray off the topic of this thread.

    I donīt know why I care about this so much, but I want to try and educate people who are considering migrating to Linux (from whatever) about the challenges this will entail. I can only do this by describing my own experiences.

    I tried Ubuntu 4.1 and 5.04, but discovered these distros donīt like very much hardware. On two machines, Ubuntu misidentified the audio cards (which were integrated into the MSI motherboards) and could not be made to work even if the (apparently) correct drivers were specified manually. More importantly, Ubuntu absolutely hated the integrated Intel video chips on these boards, and crashed 20 or 30 installations before I finally managed force an install at 640 x 480 max resolution. Ubuntu had no problems with the integrated network cards, and flawlessly found the gateway to the internet through the office intranet. However, in my hands, Ubuntu was particularly inept at networking. Although it found the internet, it couldnīt identify anything at all on the intranet (no workgroups, no printers, and not a single other computer, be it a Mac, Windows PC, or Linux box). Moreover, Ubuntu refused to recognize any printers whatsoever, regardless of whether these were networked or local. On a third (very different) machine, Ubuntu again failed to cooperate with the audio card, although it liked the video on that machine and generated some beautiful graphics. I ended up buying three more audio cards for that machine before I found one that would work with Ubuntu, but even then the volume control wouldnīt work. My staff begged me to get rid of Ubuntu, and I finally relented.

    In one remote room of my office, I have had a Win 2K machine which I networked wirelessly since it was hard to reach physically with wires. We have long had a wireless network for our laptops which integrates seamlessly into the hardwired network, so it was no problem just to add a PCI wireless networking card to the desktop PC in the remote room. No problem, that is, so long as it was running Win 2K. I was unable to find any version of Linux which would recognize the PCI wireless card. Not Ubuntu 4.1 or 5.04, not Agnula Demudi 2.1, not Fedora Core 2 or Core 3, not SuSE 9.2 or 9.3, not Mandrake 9.1, 10.0, or 10.1; not even Knoppix 3.7 or the Sun Java Desktop. I then proceeded to purchase a total of 6 different wireless PCI network cards for that machine, trying to find one that would work with Linux. Four of these were purchased from Micro Center specifically because of the salesmanīs belief they would work. None did. I tried all 6 cards with 6 different versions of Linux (36 iterations). None worked. I finally grew disgusted and spent a weekend smashing and drilling through floors, ceilings, and walls to get an ethernet cable to the room. Now the Mandrake 10.1 machine there can access the internet, but it still canīt find anything else on the intranet. And it still canīt print anywhere.

    Recently, I thought Iīd migrate to a 64-bit operating system. I bought several MSI K8N motherboards with AMD Athlon 64 (939 pin) processors and 1 GB of RAM for each board. To my dismay, SuSE 9.2 and 9.3 (allegedly 64-bit operating systems) refuses to install on these boards. The installation crashes hopelessly just seconds into the install routine every time. All of those beautiful motherboards had to be pulled and replaced with generation-old boards for which Linux has had time to accumulate the drivers.

    Linux is like a beautiful girl. Sheīll take all your money, then chew you up and spit you out. Youīll end up going back to Windows, not because you want to, but because you have no choice. But youīll never forget her. Never.

    (Iīll shut up now!)

  8. #28

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    Hi,

    Me and the rest of the people here would be happy to try and help you with your issues.

    As Tyr said, please open a thread for each of them, as it makes the job much easier to focus on a thing at a time.

    Jumping the gun, I'd say there might be something wrong on your samba.conf file if you are not seeing the computers on the workgroups.
    Regarding the printer issue, I am not very familiar with it, but I'll be happy to give it a shot.
    Finally, regarding the Windows emulators you have mentioned; on the thread you make about it, please post the steps you have taken and the errors you are getting.


  9. #29
    Mentor cga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,433

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    DeadBird, I apologize for my for my snide remarks. I have seen many a troll that reads the way your initial post read to me, so hope I you can understand my knee-jerk reaction upon first read.

    The simple truth of the matter is that I have not, nor do I know of anyone, who has the kind of across the board trouble you are having. I am not a programmer of hacker or anything like that. I started playing around with GNU/Linux operating systems in the late 1990s and have been using them full time since around 2000 for my personal use and even some work. I have installed such systems on various hardware, including laptops, with no real difficulty. I have assisted numerous people in getting systems running and have, frankly, never encountered the problems you are facing.

    As to my being a Mac-head, sorry, but no. I don’t really have an opinion about people based on their choice of software. I do personally believe, deeply, in the concept of Free Software and I do consider non-free software and file formats to be unethical. I advocate the use of Free Software, especially in public uses (government and schools). I do, however, respect the rights of people to use whatever they choose, whether or not I agree with the choice.

    There are folks here who can help you out, if you will work with them. I may even be one of them, but I doubt it from the description of you problems. As I said, I am really much more of an end user, albeit a knowledgeable one, than a hacker, but I’ll gladly provide any assistance that I can.

    Again, sorry for coming off like a dick.

  10. #30

    Re:Linux, should I convert?

    [quote author=cga link=board=12;threadid=10306;start=0#msg95170 date=1121864445]
    The simple truth of the matter is that I have not, nor do I know of anyone, who has the kind of across the board trouble you are having.
    [/quote]

    Agreed. If everything you say is true, then quite frankly I'm baffled that this could happen. I too have been using Linux exclusively since the late 90's...at home, and at work. The whole time, I've been buying hardware based on whatever I see on the shelf, and it's always worked with linux with little to no effort. No install has ever crapped out on me, and that includes the dozen or so servers I set up around the office to host miscellaneous tools. As I said, the last time I had trouble with hardware was around the turn of the century, and even that was solvable with a simple command.

    If this really is the case, then that's unfortunate. Open some threads and see what we can do for you. Put on a distro like Fedora or Ubuntu and check out their forums. Virtually everything I've ever learned to do on linux I learned from a forum. It may not be pay support, but 19 times out of 20 someone has had the exact same problem as you, and knows how to solve it.

Similar Threads

  1. Convert VCD to DVD
    By omidkamangar in forum Windows - General Topics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-26-2007, 02:12 AM
  2. New Linux Convert - Distro for Pentium II 200 Mhz
    By AljoshaNL in forum General Chat
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11-10-2005, 03:38 AM
  3. a new linux convert :D
    By mojo jojo in forum General Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-20-2005, 11:15 PM
  4. New Linux Convert: Help with X
    By shebang in forum Linux - Software, Applications & Programming
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-20-2004, 12:23 AM
  5. reformat a fat 32 drive and convert it to linux?
    By julieashley in forum Linux - Software, Applications & Programming
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-04-2003, 12:49 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •